Sluggish XBR500

[iansoady]

Having just started up the XBR after a few months of standing idle whilst I made the cosmetic improvements detailed here, I have a couple of questions:

1: It took ages churning over on the starter to eventually fire. I tried choke on / off, throttle open and closed and any combination thereof. Is this to be expected? Once running for a minute or so it settled down to a nice idle and restarted readily. Yes I do know it has a kickstart but ageing and replacement joints don't take kindly to extended periods of kicking.

2: When it did eventually fire there was a lot (to my mind) of blue smoke from the exhaust. This did clear after a few minutes. If it was a Norton I would diagnose wet sumping but as far as I can see the XBR is intended to do this to some extent.

3. No oil was showing on the dipstick after this time whether screwed in or resting on the rim. Again, this is possibly due to wet sumping and not having run for long enough to clear it. Any observations? I have to say that when I bought the bike in September I treated it to a full oil & filter change but probably didn't put the right amount in as I wasn't then familiar with the arcane checking method. There is oil in the tank (checked with a screwdriver) - maybe just not enough. I'm not in a position at the moment to ride the bike.

Ironically the Honda's stablemate 1952 Norton ES2 started first kick after standing for even longer........

[xbally]

Do you have any history of the bike Ian? What's the mileage and is it likely to be genuine / supported by any documentation / MOT history?

[iansoady]

28,000 miles which is supported by MoT history - in fact has done very few miles since 2011. I don't think there's any real problem with the engine which ran very nicely once it eventually started. I don't know much about it apart from that.

[xbally]

I don't consider myself an expert by any means but have owned a few XBRs. None of them have been low mileage and some quite high.

It could just need using.

And yes they can be difficult to get the oil level right.

I think the handbook describes the correct procedure IIRC.

Can't comment on wet sumping I'm afraid.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable and mechanically minded will be along soon.

[tommy]

hi ian the sluggish start and smoke could be valve stem seals ,or because its been laid up for awhile ,the oil level issue could be from the same thing  let the bike heat up fully then let it tickover for 3 minutes then add oil if needed, tommy

[themoudie]

Aye Ian,

Whilst never having owned an XBR, comments from other owners, previous to your enquiry, have also spoken of this reluctance to fire after a prolonged lay-up and then blue oil smoke until warmed through. Thereafter, starting and running appeared to be fine.

As for oil levels, it can be no worse than the plastic topping up resevoir under the seat, installed on the MZ Skorpion. Not enough and it doesn't appear on the dipstick, too much and the whole of the rear of the machine is covered in a film of the finest 10W/40 including the tyre! 

SRX can also be a wee bit icky, so take it for a wee run of 5 miles and then check the level, top up if required. I always measure the oil in after any changes and save myself mental anguish.

If I remember correctly, GC managed 25 minutes on the kickstart, afore his engine burst into life, after a lay-up! 

Sally (SRX600) and the Ducati 450, both require the customary, freeing of the clutch, followed by the 3 to 4 swings, with choke, before turning "ON" the ignition and giving a long swinging kick, as per your ES2, I suspect. 

It's a foible of the beast.

Good health, Bill

[iansoady]

Many thanks all, I'm reassured.

[CrazyFrog]

Strangely enough, the oil checking procedure on my little Honda 125 thumpette is a bit arcane too. Run it for 3 minutes, then leave it for 2 minutes before checking the level. This is a wet sump engine, so why on earth you have to do this instead of the factory just establishing the correct oil level in the sump when the damn thing is cold, is beyond me...

[Itsme]

Strangely enough, the oil checking procedure on my little Honda 125 thumpette is a bit arcane too. Run it for 3 minutes, then leave it for 2 minutes before checking the level. This is a wet sump engine, so why on earth you have to do this instead of the factory just establishing the correct oil level in the sump when the damn thing is cold, is beyond me...

That is why you have an Inazuma!

Ian - my GN250 was awkward to start for a few days after I rebuilt it and it stood for a few weeks. Now I am using it regularly again it is a first push start every time.

Ian

[richardeblack]

Hello Ian,
It seems to be quite common with XBRs that if stood for an extended period, first turning over seems to cause a valve to stick leaving you with no compression.  Lots of kicking or spinning over and a few backfires always gets mine going.  I've never noticed if there is smoke after this so I suspect there hasn't been with me.
They do seem to wet sump so you always need to check the oil after a run or after ticking over for some minutes.  Level is checked by touching the dipstick down to the thread, not screwing it in.
Quite a lot goes into the oil filter so always run it for a while before topping it up.
I usually slacken the cam feed union when starting after oil/filter change to make sure the oil is going through.
Enjoy the bike.
Cheers,
Richard.

[iansoady]

Thanks Richard. Being aged and feeble I was just using the magic button rather than kicking.....

Good tip on the oil feed union.

[richardeblack]

I think the tip came from Graham although I'm not sure. There not much about XBRs he doesn't know.

[blew]

My XBR wetsumps if left unused, and kickstarting it (electric start is no good with cold engine) is difficult with crankcases full of oil. Once started, the oil is pumped into the oil tank and it starts easily from then on.

[iansoady]

Someone elsewhere pointed out that unlike the Brit dry sump bikes I'm used to, the Honda shares its engine oil with the gearbox which may be the purpose of the large amount left in the crankcase / gearbox. However, why not just make it wet sump as that would hve been more straightforward?

[richardeblack]

Yes, as I said earlier, I wondered why they changed to dry(ish) sump and did wonder if it was to increase ground clearance on the trail bikes . Also I wonder if it is to act as an oil cooler partly. It is a finned aluminium tank. I think I will have a read up on the subject.
The 83 XR 500 was the first RFVC dry sump and was also lighter than its wet sump predecessor but can't really see how that would save weight.
Mind you, we've strayed off the original topic some way.
Cheers
Richard
Richard.