Grumph / Tri-Greeves

[iansoady]

Look away now you dyed-in-the-wool single fanatics.

I've now agreed to buy the major components of my latest project. The Greeves is loaded on the van and will be on the ferry later today; the Triumph bits are promised to me tomorrow. Both sellers were very nice people as were the transport folk - Shiply for the bits, Acceleration for the Greeves (http://www.motorcycletransportservices.co.uk/).

Unlike the Honda, aesthetics will have to take a back seat.

What I have: Greeves:



Some of the parts:





I'll probably discover that I don't have enough for a complete engine....

This is the kind of thing I'm after:

[Ian]

Looks like you have enough parts for more than one engine Ian 🤔. Good luck and I'm sure it will be as aesthetically pleasing as you want it to be.
Please keep us informed of your progress!
Ian 👍

[iansoady]

Yes, all snug in the garage now and starting to check what I've got.

I think I have a decent 500 barrel which is either standard or on first rebore and a set of +.040" low compression pistons to suit. One crankshaft seems to be in good condition with good threads and no play on the big ends (although will strip to check) and no marks on the timing side journal. The relevant head is very corroded but will have it vapour blasted to see what's underneath - hopefully will be OK with maybe a light skim of the head face.

I'll print out the parts list and go through methodically to see what is useable, what is scrap, and what I need to source. In parallel sorting out registration for the Greeves which I need to do while it still retains its (non-original but correct period) 9E engine.

Here is the Greeves in the garage with some of the Triumph bits. The Greeves is actually in nice condition with a few battle scars.

[themoudie]

Morning Ian,

That garage is starting to look better already!

Mucking mine out at the moment! Tidy sum from the scrappy! Brass £3-20/Kg and mixed scrap iron/steel £0-18Kg. Copper yet to be investigated?

Enjoy the puzzle and good health, Bill

[xbally]

Looks like a great haul Ian and an interesting project to get to grips with over the coming months. I always find it exciting going through all the bits once I have got them at home. Lots of room to play with in the garage as well.Too cold for me today, for either riding or tinkering-roll on proper Spring (when it eventaully comes).

[iansoady]

Yes, funny how all that room disappears as bits get strewn around!

The plan is to get all the engine bits sorted out while I wait for the Greeves to be registered which may take a while, depemding on whether it needs to be physically examined by the GRA. I'll build the engine bottom end on the bench but do the top end, gearbox etc when it's installed in the bike as I'm too feeble to hoist the completed unit into place......

I'm also wondering whether I can source an alternative front wheel as that British Hub 6" brake looks very weedy for the might Triumph engine.

[iansoady]

OK, moving on....

I've joined the Greeves Riders' Association and started the process of registering the bike as is with its Villiers engine. Apparently this is the way to go then merely notify them of an engine change once that is sorted out. I must start it up and take a video as the engine will be up for sale once all the legal stuff is done.

I've been checking out what I have in terms of engine. I have one good crankshaft complete with con rods with good bearing shells. Sadly (or maybe not*) these are for the 350 engine as the gudgeon pins are smaller on these. I have a decent 350 cylinder head which needs tidying up and a pair of 350 barrels which measure up as standard bore complete with a pair of pistons. Apart from the top ring being stuck in one of these the pistons are OK and seem to fit in the bores reasonably well. They're low compression T21 / 3TA rather than the high compression Tiger 90 version which is probably just as well.

I have 2 crankcases. One has a good drive side ball main bearing; the other has the notorious Triumph bush which is not scored or scuffed. I know you're not supposed to do this but a mix and match (ie one side from each "pair") seems to work quite well with the crank spinning freely. It could well be of course that none of the halves started life together anyway.

There is just perceptible movement of the crankshaft in the bush. A purist would change it (but as you all know I'm far from that) but that needs line boring after a fairly fraught fitting process and I'm trying to minimise costs. There'll be plenty to spend later......

Fortunately I have the later exhaust camshaft with the points on the end and the corresponding timing cover rtaher than the early distributor type but it will be a while before I get to that stage.

No photos as yet as there's nothing much to see.

I can't decide what to do with the surplus stuff. I could ebay individual items but that's a hassle. I could pack them all off to Pugh's auctioneers but possibly wouldn't get much. The best solution may be getting a stall at the VMCC Founder's Day autojumble in July. Decisions decisions.....

*I say maybe not as the full 500cc may be too much especially for the weedy front brake....

[iansoady]

Just thought you might like to see (and hear) the Greeves with its Villiers "power" plant:

I think you may understand why I want a Triumph unit in there....

[iansoady]

Cracking on but very slowly trying to make one (350cc as I don't have 500cc conrods) engine out of all the mismatched bits I have. Sadly although I had 2 sets of crankcases the drive side of one had been clumsily repaired and the timing side of the other would have needed a mainshaft bush fitted and line reamed. The bushes cost a fortune and line reaming would be expensive, so I've ended up with a mismatched pair which is not ideal. However test fitting of the crank and camshafts shows them to turn easily with only just perceptible play so that's the way I'll go.

I now have a pile of surplus parts going on ebay this week. I've sold a crusty 500cc cylinder head and been paid for the frame which a chap from Cork is coming across to collect some time.

And the dating officer from the Greeves riders' Association is coming on Tuesday to confirm the Greeves is what I say it is to get it registered and get the V5C. Hopefully with no problems.

[iansoady]

I was visited today by a very nice chap from the Greeves Riders' Association (much nicer name than "owners") who came to verify that my bike was what I said it was so that I can apply for a registration document and age-related number. The rule is to do this while it has its Villiers engine rather than the Triumph one - although that's a long way off - as that would probably end up with a Q plate and the need to MoT, pay road tax etc.

[CrazyFrog]

I don't know if you still subscribe Ian, but there's an article in the latest Real Classics mag about a Triumph engined Greeves special which may be of interest.

[johnr]

OK, moving on....

I've joined the Greeves Riders' Association and started the process of registering the bike as is with its Villiers engine. Apparently this is the way to go then merely notify them of an engine change once that is sorted out. I must start it up and take a video as the engine will be up for sale once all the legal stuff is done.

I've been checking out what I have in terms of engine. I have one good crankshaft complete with con rods with good bearing shells. Sadly (or maybe not*) these are for the 350 engine as the gudgeon pins are smaller on these. I have a decent 350 cylinder head which needs tidying up and a pair of 350 barrels which measure up as standard bore complete with a pair of pistons. Apart from the top ring being stuck in one of these the pistons are OK and seem to fit in the bores reasonably well. They're low compression T21 / 3TA rather than the high compression Tiger 90 version which is probably just as well.

I have 2 crankcases. One has a good drive side ball main bearing; the other has the notorious Triumph bush which is not scored or scuffed. I know you're not supposed to do this but a mix and match (ie one side from each "pair") seems to work quite well with the crank spinning freely. It could well be of course that none of the halves started life together anyway.

There is just perceptible movement of the crankshaft in the bush. A purist would change it (but as you all know I'm far from that) but that needs line boring after a fairly fraught fitting process and I'm trying to minimise costs. There'll be plenty to spend later......

Fortunately I have the later exhaust camshaft with the points on the end and the corresponding timing cover rtaher than the early distributor type but it will be a while before I get to that stage.

No photos as yet as there's nothing much to see.

I can't decide what to do with the surplus stuff. I could ebay individual items but that's a hassle. I could pack them all off to Pugh's auctioneers but possibly wouldn't get much. The best solution may be getting a stall at the VMCC Founder's Day autojumble in July. Decisions decisions.....

*I say maybe not as the full 500cc may be too much especially for the weedy front brake....

dont sell any of your spares till its done and running as you want it. i absolutely guarantee that you will need something that you sell within weeks of getting it on the road. after its all sorted, then is the time to offload the spares. bitter experience tells me this.......

[iansoady]

You should have told me this a couple of weeks ago John.....

I am however pretty sure that I have almost evrything that I need although time will tell. I've been quite successful in moving stuff on via ebay etc and have recouped about £300 on bits I definitely won't need - like a 500cc head, pistons and barrels as well as  couple of centre stands - and have made sure I've kept all the fasteners etc. A trial build of the bottom end looks promising even though the crankcases are mismatched - I had 2 "pairs" but one side of each pair was in poor condition for one reason or another. But everything turns smoothly when bolted up and there is no step between the crankcase halves at the barrel joint. I have read of people recommending clouting these with soft hammers to rectify such steps....

A bunch of other stuff I definitely don't need - 17" wheels, a Norton front wheel for some reason, camshafts etc have gone off to HJ Pugh for their April auction. I don't expect great results but it saves messing about. And a Triumph frame is going to a bloke in Ireland - he's paid me for it but intends to come and pick it up at some time in the future.

[iansoady]

I don't know if you still subscribe Ian, but there's an article in the latest Real Classics mag about a Triumph engined Greeves special which may be of interest.

Yes, thanks Pete - arrived at my local library yesterday. Remarkably uninformative (and uninformed) as usual from Mr Miles - eg the comments about banana forks (those fitted aren't) and that only certain frames are suitable for Triumph engines (all the pre-65 or so frames are OK). I was hoping for some useful hints & tips.....

Slowly cracking on with dry engine build while I wait for date confirmation documents so I can register it. Yesterday I ground in the valves and was rewarded by no leakage when all assembled. I did have to remove some pitting from the exhausts by putting them in the lathe and using a hand-held dremel with a small grinding stone.

[iansoady]

The dating ceretificate from the GRA arrived this morning so filled in the V55/5 form - not without some hesitation, repetition and deviation - and posted the pack off with £55 to DVLA. Here's hoping they are co-operative.