E10 fuel

[Ian]

Hi all, perhaps I'm being a bit naive, but I'm on the second fill up in the SRX fuel tank with E10 fuel.  I cannot believe the improvement in performance. The only thing different is now I have an old filler cap made up of various parts (Refer "Lockdown resto" from this week's entries.). I haven't touched, adjusted or messed with carbs, controls or ignition system. Anyone else found a difference in performance or am I just being thick 😟?

[themoudie]

Aye Ian,

The old, immediate post WWII mixtures of petrol and alcohol were preferred to straight 'pool' petrol and personaly I am not worried about the "performance" aspects of the brew!

However, the solvent effects of ethanol on paintwork, glass fibre are well known, it also digests many of the rubber/plastic fuel fittings that were fitted as "standard" until recently, so this is where my main concern is. Fuel lines on the SRX being buried beneath the fuel tank directly above a hot cylinder and exhaust silencer beneath! Annual checks and replacement with 'Viton' fuel lines and quality fuel filters appears to be the answer. Carb diaphrams might also prove more perishable! 

SteveL and I have also had a blether about fuel additives to prevent condensation/fuel separation and I have been using Castrol 'Valvemaster', as it not only requires 1ml to 1litre of fuel, but also prevents valve seat erosion, so two birds, with one stone in the case of the Duke.

Three bottles (750ml) of 'Valvemaster' for £33-00 delivered from a UK eBay seller seemed fair enough to me. 

If a bike is going to be off the road for any longer than 6 - 8 weeks, then I shall drain everything down and put a mist of Redex and or Bulldog BDX to the internal surfaces of steel tanks.

As an aside I am using the Bulldog BDX as a chain lubricant these days and as an anti-corrosion spray over the whole of the non-painted parts of the bike and appears to be very effective, so far.

Bulldog BDX link: Bulldog_BDX_supplier

Good health, Bill

[Steve Lake]

Hi Bill & Ian. thanks for the info, on a slightly different tack.... i have used ACF50 as a corrosion inhibitor for a while, but following Bills heads up on Bulldog i thought i'd check to see what other products were available in this area. and i came across this comparison test, the best i have seen, very comprehensive and 'real world' ... well worth a look.

pip pip

[Ian]

Bill I feel my entry was a little lost on you unfortunately. I do realise the side effects of the new fuel and that everyone will be affected by it in some way or other, I was just trying to find out if other people's bike were working better or worse using E10....ah well ..back to the drawing board

[themoudie]

Aye Ian,

Well the Duke blew the AMAL MKII carb off the rubber inlet today, splitting it! So after ~2,500 miles that was knackered, without a whiff of E10!

Not lost Ian, but when you put this

..... or am I just being thick 😟?

in your opening gambit, I thought a bit of a Jackanory was in order! Obviosly not!


Good health and keep sticking those miles on the SRX, Bill

[Ian]

Sorry Bill for leading you astray 😳.
Also sorry to hear about your malady with your Duke 😱
I'm sure we will hear other tales of woe in weeks/months/years to come E10 related
Cheers Ian 👍

[Richard]

E5 was bad enough in my Skorpion - blistering and swelling fuel tank mainly.

Sadly getting hold of ethanol free fuel where I live can be tricky.

[themoudie]

A further addition to this threads information.

On another forum where Dellorto products are the standard fitment, sealing rings have been found to have turned to "jelly" and some float needles no longer seal, allowing the fuel level to run from the floatbowl overflow tubes!   You are warned!

The first link is to a pdf published by 'Viton', I think this answers many questions about the materials useage with E10 fuels.

The problem is "Can you believe the selling agents blurb?" eBay independant sellers maybe buying direct from unknown Far Eastern suppliers.

Have Dellorto (appears in doubt from another Italian machine forum), AMAL, et al, prepared themselves for this and do their suppliers use the appropriate polymers?

This paragraph from the linked pdf says it all

The physical properties of vulcanizates based on Viton™
fluoroelastomers are determined to a large extent by the
type and amount of the filler(s) and curative(s) used in the
formulation and by the temperature and duration of the
curing cycle used in their manufacture.

Tamper with the ingredients and/or the recipe and you may be in trouble!   

Link: Viton-selection-guide

Furthermore, AMAL have this page on their website, specifically answering questions about E5 and E10 fuels: AMAL_ethanol-fuels_advice
N.B. this upgrade was expected to be completed by 2012! 

Good health, Bill

[mthee]

Great info and links, thank you Bill 👍

[Itsme]

I have to say I think the Mighty Midget runs better on E10. Someone told me that the Japanese have had E10 for years so a lot of 90s Japanese stuff like my GN250 was designed to run on it. Who knows? As long as the Midget keeps running I don't much mind.

Spartacus

[Moto63]

Yes great info Bill, thanks for posting the link up👍
Cheers, Michael

[mthee]

In their summary paragraph;

"E0 to E10 blended fuels have been in use in the USA since the late 1970's and have had no significant effect on the performance or durability of our product."

Why haven't the Americans suffered? Are their carb spares of better quality?

Also, why then are Amal proposing to use Viton, especially given the cost implications? More ethanol content in the future coming our way?

A couple of weeks ago, I messaged eBay's most helpful seller of Keihin and Mikuni parts to ask if their rebuild kits were affected by E10. He messaged straight back to say he didn't know and would check with Mikuni. I'll chase him up.

[mthee]

It seems the Americans have been suffering. This from Mark Brewing at BSD Performance;

"You can’t sugar coat this: it’s a nightmare. I work on 30-35 GSX-R1000 engines every year, but the ones that come from the USA, where their fuel is really nasty, have valves caked in crap when I take them out."

Full article here;

https://www.morebikes.co.uk/news/3549/truth-ethanol-e10-fuel/

[Mutt]

I'm sure that this will be an ongoing thread. I put E10 in the tank at start of September dosed with the usual Frosts. The bike rode well without any hesitation but I didn't get any sensation that it was more spritely or otherwise. Then followed a clout by the Covid stick. I have today managed to get the bike out of the dry & warm garage at long last. Oh boy, it was "lumpy" with lots of over run off throttle which certainly drew attention of pedestrians and car drivers. It cleared after some miles and settled back to normal. I can honestly say that even after lay ups over previous winters it had never done this. If it is down to the fuel then the hydroscopic effect of the increased ethanol is probably faster acting than anticipated? Looks like I'll be seeking out the ESSO Super (and super expensive!) in future.

PS. I wouldn't want to have had Covid without the jabs! I didn't think that I was that unwell but it was pointed out by my better half that I was because I didn't venture into the garage to tinker. Thankfully, I was the only one infected in the household - it really is a strange virus and I still have no clue as to where I picked it up.