Author Topic: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed  (Read 809 times)

guest27

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Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« on: April 06, 2007, 07:21:31 PM »
Not able to concentrate on one thing at a time rather than resolving where the TZRotax will have its oil cooler I got to looking at the GT250/T500 hybrid thingy (easy to move this one all the engine innards are in a box) and the really poxy front forks (34mm).  Have been looking at a pair of GT750 forks on eBay.  Then I got to looking a the Guzzi V50 front end at the other end of the shed.  2 hours later the GT250T500 hybrid thingy is sporting a very nice twin disk front end (32mm ahem...)  and I have a genuine externally sprung T500 front end to go on eBay.  Any thoughts as to whether I should sell it as one piece or split it down into wheel, forks, yokes, steering damper etc?

Graft was not perfect - the bearings I have for the V50 are 2mm smaller than the space in the GT headstock - I feel some shim stock coming on.  The nut on the V50 that holds the top bearing in place is actually a ball race and there was not really enough space so I had to turn this back - thank goodness for TC tips - turning back bearing races is not my fave passion - lots of cherry red swarf etc.  Also noticed that the lathe jumps when it gets past the end of cut - something is not adjusted quite right and I know not what.  Fork offset and possible trail / rake seem to be very different - the bike did nto fit back into the same space, but this may come back with the shimming of the bearings, or I could shim excentricaly - mind would have to be a bit of a bodge do not think I can turn an excentric 2mm on one side and 0mm on the other.

Another bonus is that it is an 18" front wheel - so I do not have to get one made, down side is that it is cast and the back is spoked - mind I do have a GT250 front wheel that could take twin disks - but then the spindle is 2mm less than the V50....

K4 ran a little better today - but was backfiring alot - not too bad miond for a bike that has not been started for a couple of years and is wearing a pair of stroker 24mm slide carbs rather than the original CVs

May be going to the Classic  Bike Racing at Pembery tomorrow.

R

MrFluffy

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Re: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2007, 06:10:41 PM »
Not sure you should take off the forks since they kind of define the look of a T500, unless theyre bent or damaged in a non repareable way. You can probally get modern damper cartridges and teflon bearings to go in to improve them discreetly. If classic is what your building to,  cant beat external spring forks, set o bacon slicers and a big old robinson 4ls front brake with scoops and front numberplate. Even if it will overheat and fade after a few big stops :)

For the conversion itself, how I would have approached it was I would turn up a new yolk spindle in your lathe to take the same bearings as the original stem, and push out the the V50 stem from the bottom yolk (theyre usually welded in, so if you grind out the weld, they push out downwards on a big press) and push in the custom one. It would cost nothing but time and materials and would be strong and take oem parts when it comes to replacement, and you could avoid all the shimming and cutting.
For the bearing, cutting down the outer race, arent they all hardened? you mentioned red chips, does the race itself heat up during the turning operation enough to destroy any heat treatment they did on it?
As a aside, my bimota has eccentric rings in the headstock around the bearing so you can alter head angle by loosening the locking nut and rotating the eccentric. Clever but how many people are going to be tuning their handling enough to want to alter head angle in the pits. I havent played with half the adjustments on it, and Ive been riding it for years now..

For the wheel, you could probally get some bearings off the shelf that fit the housing on the wheel and are 2mm bigger id.

Used to have a K4 on the road, better hack than a superdream anyday!

guest27

  • Guest
Re: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2007, 07:24:24 PM »
Hi good thoughts.  Yup the T500 legs look nice, but they are in need of love, and anyway the frame is a chopped about GT250, not the T500, so a bit different any way.  Ideas on the stem - the stem is actually the same dia and length as the Suzuki Item, it is just the Taper rollers that were holding the V50 front end into a featherbed frame, and then a Jawa 500R frame are 2mm OD less than the SUzuki housing, mind I must check - the GT 250 seems to run different taper rollers top and bottom - Simplest option is to make sure that the GT spindle is the same dia as the T500 (almost certainly is) and buy GT250 taper bearings, BUT they are £30 per set and I have some shimming anyway...

I thought that the bearing race would be case hardened - mind many races are hard enough throughout to use as turning tip for boring bars - and would be a problem to turn for the first  couple of .01mm / thou and then be plain sailing - but the while hunk of steel was sparking and bluing and making the tungsten tip work for its money - despite coolent.  Still job done - any thoughts on the jumping lathe would be good mind.

Option 2 on the front wheel (option 1 is leave it as cast / replace with spoked item) is to see if I can get the spare Astralite I have to fit the rear - would need to make up a disk carrier etc.  Being as this is a play thing for me and is not intended as a classic race bike - it will not matter too much so long as it looks right.

Idea on the bearings - I have tried before to 'covert' wheels by changing the bearings and never seem to find the sizes I want - seem to be wither standard sizes or I am looking in the wrong place.  Mind the Suzuki hub has loads of meat so opening it out to take a bigger bearing could work.

Shhhhhhhhh - none of the above is about thumpers....

R

guest40

  • Guest
Re: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2007, 01:18:31 AM »
Any photos of this beast,it sounds cool.
Being an old Suzuki nut I had both the T20's and T500 and have ridden a few T250's the story has hit a nerve.
one thing tho, Suzuki used ball bearing races on the steering heads, so the taper rollers you mention must be after market equipment. I used the taper bearings on an old Yammy XJ650 and found them to be superior to the ball races.
The old OSSA enduro I had had rollers as std. , I think they should be std on all bikes

peterj

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Re: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2007, 07:48:27 AM »
Totally unrelated to to conversation so far, but while the motor is still in bits do you know about the Suzuki gearbox oil level debacle?

For the uninitiated, mid - late T500's and all GT500's had a very simple mod to add 200ml to the gearbox capacity and prevent regular box melt downs. Unfortunately they never removed or altered the prominent "1200ml" (think that was the number) embossed on the casing next to the filler. Poor sods like me and my GT500's next owner (and so I've read even Suzuki mechanics) believed it instead of the manual and suffered regular gearbox meltdowns......

guest27

  • Guest
Re: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2007, 04:48:56 PM »
Hi Peter, Yup I have come across this of late - I think one of my engines will be unmodified, the other is a GT500 lump so will have the baffle in the box - I will look at this - apparently you can make a similar mod with some ally and silicone.  Have also just read that you should not use the old pistons in the new barrels - cannot remember the reason - but I will have to look.

As to photos. Not sure this site handles stroker twin pics.. lol - also it is burried in the back of the shed - made getting the forks changed interesting - holding up the frame in one hand whilst lifting the front end in with the other.  As to the bearings - yup a lover of TRB front ends - hence the TRBs on the Guzzi - it was also balls, and when it went into the featherbed it won a set of TRBs

Have had a look at the Astralite wheel and it would need a whole new swingarm to get it in - too wide.

R

guest27

  • Guest
Re: Bin fiddlin' in t' shed
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 01:26:28 PM »
Kurt asked for a couple of pics - as all things in my shed - a long way from completion - mind there are some chambers somewhere in a cupboard.

R