xbr oil change

[guest1629]

Hello, I`m a new member with an 87 XBR..................I have just changed the oil and filter on the bike........I removed the old filter,and drained the tank and  crankcase overnight..............After re filling,I have no return to the tank.............Any ideas?.Geoff Schofield

[SteveC#222]

XBR's do tend to wet sump, they can also airlock. When I do an oil change I always loosen off the oil feed bango bolt on the rocker cover until the new oil starts to weep out just to be sure it's circulating. Is the cover plate ( and so oilway feed) on the right way?

[guest1629]

Thanks for the reply,,,,,,,,,,,,,I finally got a return to the tank after following the feeds and return and loosening each union and bleeding.....................now I can see the commotion in the tank as the oil returns...................now I`ve got a similar job to do on the Venom...............Thanks......Geoff

[guest1130]

Similar problems: did a clutch overhaul and a complete oil change and get no return feed. Tried loosening the lines up but can't get it to flow:

• Loosened the banjo bolt on the top of the right crankcase - fresh oil seeps out
• Loosened the banjo bolt on the other end of that pipe (on the side of the engine) - fresh oil seeps out
• Loosened the two 8mm bolts that hold the two steel weaved oil hoses to the right crank case - fresh oil seeps out (tho not sure from which outlet)
• Loosened the two 10mm nuts holding the other end of the twin hoses to the oil tank - nothing seeps out..

Am I missing something else? I filled the required 1,7l to the tank and the engine sucked it all in and gave nothing in return

[guest1130]

^Anyone?

I'm not sure how the oil circulates in an XBR, help me out. From what I think I know:

• Oilpump sucks oil from the tank to the right crankcase via one of the double hoses (the outmost one?)
• Oil gets fed into the cylinderhead via the the vertical hose with banjo bolts at each end
• Oil circulates inside the engine and returns to the tank via one of the double hoses (the one closest to the cylinder?)[\li]
  

If so, I need to locate where the oil is blocked. I've already checked the vertical hose, oil seeps out at both ends when loosened. I think my next step would be taking the return hose off the bike and see if oil starts flowing from the outlet on the crankcase. Then see wether the hose itself is not blocked.

Which one of the hoses is the return hose?

[guest564]

The XBR can be hard to prime. In the past I've had to remove the line from the tank and then pour oil down it through a cut off washing up bottle to get the pump pumping. I would advise pouring a little oil through a tappet cover to keep the cam lubricated until you get the oil pump working properly.

[Propellor]

The oil tank is low and the feed/return pipes (if that is what they are) go up and over, so is there a check valve on the feed line? There wouldn't appear to be any need for one?

You can imagine how an air lock could easily occur.

Is there a return oil pump?

How are the gears lubricated? Separate compartment or spray?

Can anyone point me in the direction of any cutaway drawings for the xbr, to help familiarise myself with the workings?

Cheers.

[guest1130]

I've been looking for an oil flow direction diagram too..

AFAIK there's no dedicated return feed pump in the XBR. Airlocks in the return hose shouldn't be a problem since it can be "bled" through the dipstick hole (if the tank is nearly empty, as is the case with my bike, and the return flows with pressure - it should push the air in the hose out of it's way).

Hopefully someone with a full understanding of the oil circulation of the XBR lump can chime in..

[Propellor]

I've been looking for an oil flow direction diagram too..

AFAIK there's no dedicated return feed pump in the XBR. Airlocks in the return hose shouldn't be a problem since it can be "bled" through the dipstick hole (if the tank is nearly empty, as is the case with my bike, and the return flows with pressure - it should push the air in the hose out of it's way).

Hopefully someone with a full understanding of the oil circulation of the XBR lump can chime in..

Hi.

I wonder how the oil finds its way back to tank?

Re airlock, yes, I kind of see what you mean, but what I thought seemed to happen was that the oil pipes high point seems to be much higher than the bottom of the tank. I might be wrong with that though because the bike is my brothers so I only see it occasionally. I can't just walk out to the garage to look. I happened to notice the way the pipes went as I used to have a BSA A10 and the oil tank was much higher than the xbr. From memory I seem to recall it used a ball and spring type check valve to stop "wet sumping", although if you left it stood for a week or so oil would seep into the sump anyway. It was that long ago I'm not even 100% sure that I'm correct with that either. Memory can play tricks!

If the oil has to go up and over, there would (theoretically) be a point when, as the oil tank was gradually filled, air would trap in the high spot. If that did happen I think it would depend on the pressure head on one side versus the head on the other as to whether the air moved away and up into the oil tank

Is the oil tank vented to atmosphere? I wondered if there are check valves used on the xbr to stop the oil in the pipes draining away into the engine when the bike was left stood?

Cheers.

[guest564]

I don't think there is a check valve, I think its just uses very carefully designed pipework. Back in the 80s when everyone was racing them in various frames the oil syphoning into the sump was quite a common problem, as long as the pipes go up before they go down it should be OK.
From what I recall the oil pump is a scavenger as well.

[guest1130]

Okay, so  the next thing I'll try is:

• remove both of the oil hoses
• check that neither one is clogged
• attach them back to the crankcase
• pour them full of oil
• attach the other ends to the oil tank
• hope for the best and start the engine

Any other things I should consider/test?

[Propellor]

Okay, so  the next thing I'll try is:

• remove both of the oil hoses
• check that neither one is clogged
• attach them back to the crankcase
• pour them full of oil
• attach the other ends to the oil tank
• hope for the best and start the engine

Any other things I should consider/test?

Bit of a long shot, but is it possible that your oil tank is not venting to atmosphere?

Either way, it seems apparent that air plays a strong part in the xbr system, judging by the comments on priming etc. Stating the obvious, but air is buoyant and therefore stubborn wherever there are high spots. Those oil pipes look troublesome to me with regards to air locks, although, if I know the Japanese, there will be a pretty good reason they are like that.

One thing I am reasonably confident of is that the head generated by atmosphere acting on the oil in the tank is certainly not enough to shift an air bubble in the top portion of the braided pipes.

Regarding oil showing its presence at the top of the feed to the head, I wonder if there's a check valve at the bottom designed to hold oil in the head area ready for good circulation when starting cold?

[guest1130]

I got the oil circulating. I took both of the oil hoses off the oil tank, poured them full of oil and then re-attached them to the tank. The most likely cause was indeed an airlock somewhere since the oil returning to the tank was filled with air bubbles for the first couple of minutes.

Now I have exess oil in the tank (measures above the top mark on the dipstick). Is it a problem or should I just leave it at that?

[Propellor]

I got the oil circulating. I took both of the oil hoses off the oil tank, poured them full of oil and then re-attached them to the tank. The most likely cause was indeed an airlock somewhere since the oil returning to the tank was filled with air bubbles for the first couple of minutes.

Now I have exess oil in the tank (measures above the top mark on the dipstick). Is it a problem or should I just leave it at that?

Good to hear you're (kind of) underway. Be good to hear of any further discoveries regarding this seemingly peculiar oil system.

The next question is, once the pipes have been bled of air, let's say the bike then stands for a month, what stops the oil in the pipes seeping downwards and, by default, air seeping upwards. Into the high points of the pipes?

Is it fair to say that the xbr has a reputation for a "weak top end"? If there is such a reputation, is it in any way related to air? One wonders...