Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: iansoady on July 30, 2022, 02:48:40 PM
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I've now put a few miles on the Honda CB250RS. It's light, manageable, handles well and now at least has decent brakes. However it's a bit on the sluggish side. I was expecting it to be a bit down on the Norton but whereas the ES2 accelerates, the little Honda could better be described as gently gathering speed. Theoretically they have similar power outputs but I do appreciate the Honda develops its 26bhp around 85000 rpm whereas the Norton's quoted 24bhp is probably at around half that. Actually both have similar "real world" top speeds around the 70mph mark but in a drag race the 30 year older Norton would leave the Honda in its dust.
I understand that it may be working quite hard to lug my 110kg or so around but was hoping for a little bit more. Talking to my younger brother, he tells me that when he was an apprentice one of his mates had a 250RS and he wheelied it everywhere - there is little chance of mine achieving that.
So as I say, am I just expecting too much from the poor little thing? I do like it otherwise......
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Aye Ian,
Maybe the air filter and silencer are strangling the wee beastie? ! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Time for some fettling me thinks.
Good health, Bill
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Ian-I don't find mine overwhelmingly powerful either. I couldn't ever see mine pulling a wheelie-not with me onboard.
The BHP at the rear wheel is probably quite a lot less.
I have always thought they could do with a 500cc engine to make life much more interesting.
Mine is running standard exhaust and filter.
I bet your ES2 has loads more torque and character.
IMHO the RS's best feature is its very light weight-but yes it does need more power.
Martin
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Thanks both. Silencer is a Motad, air filter the standard oiled foam (although I haven't actually oiled it!).
I think I'll probably just live with it and possibly also adjust my riding style - revving it a bit higher will probably help....
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Aye Ian,
Revving them is the bit I find difficult, when it comes to mechanical sympathies and having started out with Matchy and AJS longstroke engines.
The SRX and Duke don't appreciate being "plonked" and like being revved.
Good health, Bill
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Just been for a 25 mile ride on mine and yes you do have to rev them...although mine manged to get up Hagley Hill (if you know it) in top easily within the speed limit 40 going to 60 easily enough so I'm guessing nothing wrong with the engine-uses no little or no oil between changes but does leak a small amount from the rocker cover-they all do that which is very unHondaish.
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Hi Ian
It's a difficult question with smaller capacity bikes. A certain amount of fettling never goes amiss and sometimes will release a smidgeon more go, but the reality is a 250 will never light up like a bigger bike unless it is a Japanese screamer from the 90s. I bet your brother achieved wheelies through the exuberance of youth as much as anything.
What I have found with the Mighty Midget, which has slightly less power than the RS, is that it seemed painfully slow when I first got off the CBF500 and on to it, but now a year or so of just riding it has made it seem quite acceptable. An adjustment to expectations may be necessary I'm sorry to say.
Anyway as long as you enjoy it that is all that matters surely.
Ian
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Yes, I am enjoying it but just felt it could do with a little more oomph. Learning to live with it and use the revs seem to be the solution as well as not riding it immediately after the Norton and expecting it to perform the same. It is much easier to ride which is essentially why I got it in the first place.
I know Hagley Hill Martin - my local test hill is Gorcott Hill on the A435 north of Redditch. The Norton will crest it at over 60.
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Yes, I am enjoying it but just felt it could do with a little more oomph. Learning to live with it and use the revs seem to be the solution as well as not riding it immediately after the Norton and expecting it to perform the same. It is much easier to ride which is essentially why I got it in the first place.
I know Hagley Hill Martin - my local test hill is Gorcott Hill on the A435 north of Redditch. The Norton will crest it at over 60.
Is that the long hill up to M42 J3 Ian?
I used to work in Redditch and had a friend with a small bike shop in Astwood Bank so I do know some of the local area. I'm also quite interested in the history of Royal Enfield as I've owned a few-nearly all Indian models though. Lots of nice countryside. I was at the Feckenham open gardens with SWMBO in June too!
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A little bit further south but on the way to the M42 junction. It's the one just north of the 3 garden centres clustered around Mappleborough Green.
As you say, lots of pleasant roads although cursed at the moment with road works. We moved here (about a mile from the garden centres) just before the pandemic struck and really like it - quite rural and bosky but walking distance to everything you need. A bit like the 15 minute city concept https://www.15minutecity.com/about (https://www.15minutecity.com/about). The new part of the town was very carefully designed to separate vehicles from pedestrians / cyclists and this has been largely achieved although can be frustrating when driving!
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I only know of one garden centre at Mappleborough Green-it's just off the island at the start of the Henley In Arden road-at the end of the dual carriageway from Bromsgrove. Used to go that way quite a lot-mainly when they had Wednesday bike night at the Waterman at Hatton. Happy days back in the 90's........... I used to work for the council at the Town Hall-Walter Stranz Square-those dual carriageways around the town can be quite a race track........Used to go on my CBR600 in those days and you could park a bike in a designated place on the car park.
Back to the RS it would be good if there was a cheapish way to perk up the performance a bit ......
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It's probably an age thing isn't it? Back in my 20's I'd wind the throttle to the stop on whichever particular MZ 250 I happened to be riding at the time in a desperate attempt to get the needle round to the PAL makers symbol at the bottom. I hadn't a thought of mechanical longevity or fuel consumption. At wide open throttle most piston ported 2 strokes send large amounts of unburnt fuel straight out the tail pipe. I never blew an engine, though I did nip one up. The fuel consumption hovered around the 45mpg mark 😳
These days, on my Jawa, I cruise at an indicated 60 - 65, with the occasional jaunt up to 70 - 75 to pass slower traffic. I've never bothered to try and reach the theoretical top speed of around 80. I can't see the point! I get around 80mpg on a run, riding within the bikes limits. I guess my miss spent youth is long gone...
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Maybe I'm revsiting that mis-spent youthyou mention. Martin - it's still a racetrack and from our back garden you can hear bikes really pushing it. Occasionally followed shortly afterwards by sirens. There are often speed camera vans but they're only there during the day not late evening when the mayhem usually happens.
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I've now put a few miles on the Honda CB250RS. It's light, manageable, handles well and now at least has decent brakes. However it's a bit on the sluggish side. I was expecting it to be a bit down on the Norton but whereas the ES2 accelerates, the little Honda could better be described as gently gathering speed. Theoretically they have similar power outputs but I do appreciate the Honda develops its 26bhp around 85000 rpm whereas the Norton's quoted 24bhp is probably at around half that. Actually both have similar "real world" top speeds around the 70mph mark but in a drag race the 30 year older Norton would leave the Honda in its dust.
I understand that it may be working quite hard to lug my 110kg or so around but was hoping for a little bit more. Talking to my younger brother, he tells me that when he was an apprentice one of his mates had a 250RS and he wheelied it everywhere - there is little chance of mine achieving that.
So as I say, am I just expecting too much from the poor little thing? I do like it otherwise......
Ian,
Just picked up on your post and saw your nice bike on that Wordpress blog thingy.
I had a couple of 250rs in the past. My current one has a stack of miles on it but was clearly rebuilt.
I always think these little bikes have a sweet spot at around 55mph and frankly I’m reluctant now to thrash it in order to preserve its longevity and the consumables. Gently gathering speed is an appropriate phase for my bike too. It’s no flying machine, just a great bike for loads of other reasons.
All the best,
Kev
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Thanks Kev, I'm beginning to think the answer to my original question is "yes, I am expecting too much". So much so that I've used the Norton far more over the summer despite the little Honda being handier and lighter.
So will probably part with it in the spring although anybody here might be interested? Looking for £1300 or so to cover costs. Some years ago I tried a Mash 400 and think one of those might suit my "second bike" needs.
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Sorry you are not getting along with your RS as you had hoped Ian.
We could do with a few more RS owners on here maybe.
I do understand where you are coming from.
Now I have sold my XBR and swapped my RE Continental GT 535 the RS is the only single I own.
I have often considered moving my RS on but more often than not when I ride it, although it's not the most powerful of bikes and can be a bit snatchy I always come back to liking it.
You do need to use the gears as well, particularly at sub 40 mph.
As Kev says they will hold a higher (but not too high) speed-mine will happily run up to 60-70 mph on the clock if needs be.
I'm planning to keep mine long term-all being well- as I hope the light weight will be a factor in this as I get older (and no doubt weaker).
I was out on mine this morning doing about 25 miles and very much enjoyed the experience.
I was also heartened upon speaking to a youngish lad (aged about 30 ish) today who was working with his Dad re-fitting a door and panels at our bungalow and he was very interested in the RS being a biker himself.
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Some years ago I tried a Mash 400 and think one of those might suit my "second bike" needs.
Just be careful Ian, I briefly owned a Mash400 (mistakenly called a 500!). I was astounded at the lack of quality of the bolts and fittings. It was a reasonably smooth motor, but I moved it on very quickly. If you do decide to have one I think you'll be disappointed with the quality, especially after owning a Honda.
Just my own personal thoughts and experience.
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Hi Ian - I've ridden quite a few thumpers over the years but surprisingly never a CB250RS. Always liked the look and the concept though. As for the Mash, to be honest I'd be more tempted by one of the Jap market Hondas such as a CB400SS. Although you'll pay more for what is an older bike I think that is reflected in the build quality - depreciation should be lower too.
Regards
Tony
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Yes, I take the point re build quality... Of course I would be looking at a used mash, so depreciation would be a benefit rather than a problem! There are always a couple around the £2,000 mark so not too hard to find. I did have a Honda 400 4 (The "big one") grey import for a while but hated it - with a rev limit of something like 14,000 it was just not my style at all.
I have been looking at the facebook mash users' pages and there are definitely issues with some, although the majority of owners seem quite happy.
It is a shame the little Honda and I haven't really bonded. It definitely has many good points and is an easy ride whereas the Norton is much more engaging (read if you will hard work although rewarding). I should probably have kept the Guzzi V50 I sold on a couple of years ago but we live and learn.
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Hello Ian,
I’ve just done a 50 mile round trip to Church Stretton on my Cb250rs and was thinking about your post.
It was a great ride out on a superb October day, but it reaffirmed my view that the bike is no flyer. I just can’t imagine wheelies and the such like. I just rode at 50mph, showing 5k revs and enjoyed the sweet little gone buzzing away and the light weight of the machine.
I also run a 1979 Yamaha SR500 that I bought a year ago. Strange thing is that, to date at least, I have not fully bonded with it and can’t put my finger on the reason behind it. It’s a great bike but, to date, doesn’t give me the elusive grin factor that I get from the little Honda.
Riding bikes is highly individual. Fortunately, we, and our bikes, are all different.
All the best,
Kev
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Yes, it is strange - one man's meat and all that. TBH if I'd gone for the later electric start model I may have been happier (although I believe they have their own issues). Advancing age and associated inflexibility mean I can't lift my right leg high enough to start the Honda when astride it although can when standing beside it. Oddly enough I don't have that problem with the Norton. I'm also not keen on the auto decompressor.
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Hi Ian - CB400SS is not the 4 cylinder model but a tidy looking 400cc 4 valve single. Think they were made between 2000 and 2010 for the Japanese domestic market (they seem to keep the most interesting for themselves!). Later ones were electric start,139kg and 29hp. Some of the importers have brought them to the UK although they do seem to hover around the £3k mark
Regards
Tony
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How about getting aTU250 ? basically a GN250 with a new frock....
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Tony - I didn't know about those but it looks quite tidy and probably something I could live with. I'll check them out. Spooky - I think I need more than a 250.......
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Ian,
There’s a cb400ss single cylinder on eBay quite near you in Evesham.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284965589438?hash=item425945d1be:g:32kAAOSw7fljIKWK
They seem similar to the Yamaha sr400, only with the benefit of button start.
I toyed with the idea of one, but ended up buying a sr500.
All the best,
Kev
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Thanks Kev, noticed that one. It looks very nice apart from the tyres - why put scrambler type tyres on I wonder? I may pop over and have a look although it's not very sensible to buy it while I've still got the 250. Also its price is a little on the high side.
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Ian,
I don’t get the scrambler tyres either but a viewing may give you a clearer idea of set up, weight and the such like.
Let us know what you think if you decide to check it out.
Kev
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Yes, I see the ad's nearly at the end of its run so may let it run out then give him a ring. There's a silver one in Bristol and a snazzy yellow one in Norfolk (a bit far for me) as well.
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Just make sure it's the right bike for you Ian - handy if you can wrangle yourself a test ride to be sure. Some seem to be fitted with aftermarket (generic / loud) pipes which is ok if you can live with it but handy if the original system is included. Also check that it is one of the electric start models - I think the later ones had both kick and electric start. They do crop up for sale occasionally so you'd probably be better taking your time 'til a good standard one turns up. There's also a high pipe version called a CL400.
Regards
Tony
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Yes, good points. I definitely want an electric start so looking at the slightly later ones. I'll keep an eye out for the CL400 although I'm not really a fan of high pipes having been burnt(!) before.
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OK the little Honda is now for sale here & on Gumtree https://www.gumtree.com/p/honda-motorbikes/1980-honda-cb250-rsa/1443927095 . At a discount for TC members!
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This is tricky.
I think a lot of folk remember the 250rs from when it was newish, and so they were a lot younger and…well, lighter?
I last had one 5 yrs ago, and was still a skinny feller of 62kg (10 an a bit stone in old money). Diagnosed coeliac and not eating gluten, I’m now a coupla stone heavier, but still below average “biker weight” so I think thry are still fairly brisk.
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A nicer answer might be that once its warmed up, you can rev it quite a bit, you arent being unkind, its meant to do that. Maybe have a shot of someones 250Suoerdream, which feels loads bigger but more sluggish. Or the 90s/noughties CB250 Nighthawk, v dull indeed.
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I had a 250 superdream as a commuter a while ago and it was dire. I replaced the engine with a 400 and it was much better but a bit porky. Anyway I like thumpers!
A young lad came round today to have a look at the 250RS - seemed quite keen but hasn't had a bike before and very ignorant. Asked me why the back brake (left hand handlebar lever) was so soft!!!!
The local CB400SS was sold by the time I got in touch. There's a scruffy one in Bristol which I don't fancy and a kickstart only one in Norfolk so neither for me.
There's what looks like quite a nice on on Gumtree but the photos are poor and it's a bit pricey.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/honda-motorbikes/honda-cb-400-ss-2006-motorbike-/1442376083
Many thanks to Tony for suggesting these as they look just the job.
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Another example Ian but possibly not an electric start version. As with any purchase I would be inclined to bide your time until the right bike come along which is more local to you
Regards
Tony
https://en-gb.facebook.com/marketplace/item/5749510255111921/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post
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These really are beautiful!
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Many thanks Tony, that's very nice looking but as you suggest I think it's the early kickstart only version. You're probably right I should be patient but that has never been one of my virtues.....