Thumper Club Forum
Club House => Chatter => Topic started by: Ian on January 30, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
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Sad news about Norton, but it does make you wonder where all that "Government money" went to ::)
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Yes very, very sad news indeedy. Feel I had a lucky escape as I cancelled my order for one of the atlas models. Luckily I got my full deposit returned without any hassle whatsoever. Also makes one wonder where’s all the money gone from the multi million pound deal he’d struck with a Chinese manufacturer to use the design of the 650 twin engine in an Chinese only bike. Hhmm maybe he shouldn’t have been driving around in that Lamborghini 😯
Cheers. Michael
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In fact maybe Henry Cole could buy them out and resurrect the name yet again....man 😉
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Yes, very sad indeed. Reading the various reports it certainly seems there is (was) issues with the controller of the business and his other business interests. Sadly, the 100 or so workforce may be left wanting not only for their jobs but there appears to be issues with the pension fund too. The appointed Administrators BDO will be in there to see what can be salvaged but only after they have had 'first dibs' to secure their fee! No doubt a lot more will unfold.
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It will be very sad to see them go, but when your cheapest model is £15K and top of the range at £28K how many are you realistically going to sell? Maybe an 'everyman ' model at a sensible price might have changed their fortunes?
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The atlas model I put my deposit down (ironically exactly 1 year ago) was going to be £10,000.
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Just dug out the invoice from my deposit. Just out of curiosity really. Dated 11th jan 2019. Total amount for norton atlas nomad was £8329 so arguably not ridiculous money these days. I got the feeling that something just wasn’t sitting quite right after a few months so withdrew the order and got my deposit back.
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The atlas model I put my deposit down (ironically exactly 1 year ago) was going to be £10,000.
I stand corrected! :-[ .....certain a more sensible price but not enough to save them sadly. :-\
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I have a friend who was aware earlier than published that the sh1t had hit the fan. Indeed, the waters are more cesspit like than turbid!
Only sympathy for the employees who will likely loose the lot and those who have money, from loyalty to the name, "invested"!
I suspect if it's no a battery supplying the power and an electric motor providing the propulsion then you are not "investing", just wishfull thinking!
Thinking of restoring the Dawes 'Horizon'!
Hicky and McPint will be properly pi**ed off and who can blame them? Lot of time and effort wasted!
Toodle pip, Bill
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If the news feeds are to be believed, Mr Garner has some awkward questions to answer regarding pension schemes and fraudulent activities involving investments in the company. Not sure how much, if any of this is to believed, but it's hard to believe pension schemes are still being abused these days after all the crap that hard working pension contributors have had to put up with in the past.
My sympathies lie with the staff and any small investors who may have been hoodwinked :(
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I know that this article in the Guardian may have a journalistic slant. But, I understand that in principle much of the article is true. A sad time indeed for those directly involved in all the ramifications. As usual the only ones to come out smelling of roses will be the lawyers, accountants and some underhand shysters! >:(
2020-01-30_Guardian_Norton_failure_article (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal)
Bill
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yes sad news about Norton some of their bikes are just amazing ,I was talking to mr garner of Norton on there stand at the nec show a few months ago he said they had taken 25 orders for the top of the range bikes ,wonder what will happen to those deposits I,d say theres a few people fairly worried about getting their money back
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If the Administrators are in they will take their cut, the bank will get whats left and any suppliers owed money and anyone who has paid a deposit will be left high and dry. Seen the books from when Wrightbus over here in NI went into Administration and the amounts owed to people (mainly suppliers) were huge with no hope of getting any money back. Personally lost £3000 over that one, yet now JCB have bought the company from the Administrator (minus the debts of course) it is being hailed as a big success!
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What's this?!!!!!,
British motorcycle manufacturer goes under due to dodgy management and shady dealing, surely not! Again?
Until we start to string these crooks up by the kn*****s the peter greens etc. of this world will continue to destroy the
lives and livelihoods of honest, hard working people all over the country. How come no-one ever gets locked up for this? And administrators
have, for years, ignored their mandate. Many viable small businesses could have been saved over the years but have had their assets sold
out from under them by those parasites, b******s.
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It's sad that all the people who set out to "rescue" the proud name of Norton seem to be chancers that I wouldn't buy a cup of tea from. LeRoux, Garner etc - all sharks looking for a quick buck in my experience. And look who the bulk of the money s owed to - HRMC - in other words us. I bet he's paid off the loans before them.
And as said, millions of taxpayers' money has been thrown at them.
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Of course I have every sympathy for the poor workforce but I can't pretend I'm surprised. Not only are people like Stuart Garner inevitably more talk than substance but when I sat on a 916 Commando at the NEC show a couple of years ago it was shocking. The head bearings were loose, the clutch was badly adjusted, the chain was rusty etc. I thought if that's how they knock out a show bike to attract custom the production models must be awful.
Ian
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Norton's culture as a company is to go bust. First time was 10 years after they started. They overspent on racing in the 50's due to Joe Craig and his dominance making production an afterthought with no resource, there were dodgy stock market dealings in the 70's and now for the first time in the 21st they have gone.Sounds like similar financial bad behaviour has gone on. Triumph were and are the opposite. Read Bert Hopwood's 'Whatever happened to the British Motorcycle Industry' to gain fuller understanding.
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https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/stuart-garner-fails-appear-norton-pensions-hearing
No surprises there 🙄
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No non whatsoever 😡😡....
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https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start
Very interesting reading
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Very interesting read Ian... thanks for posting. If it’s a true account of his dealings. Which I’m sure it is. Let’s just hope he gets his just desserts 😡
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I've just read that and am appalled though can hardly say I'm surprised. I look forward to further episodes although as a (Bracebridge Street) Norton owner I think it's appalling what he's done to an honoured name. Pa Norton, who was a devout Methodist and as straight as a die, would be devastated that the company he started has fallen into the hands of such a charlatan although of course it's Norton in name only. It's also tragic that Spondon who made wonderful frames have been dragged down with it.
Some years ago I had some dealings with a similar character who'd fleeced my wife out of several thousand pounds with empty promises. We successfully recovered over £10,000 from the County Court after he tried several times to weasel his way out of it (changing company names etc). I discovered recently that another of his companies has taken out a CVA with the major creditors HMRC (ie us) and Funding Circle (a peer to peer lending company) losing out to the extent of hundreds of thousands. His other companies are of course thriving and he continues to boast of his millionaire lifestyle and stable of Ferraris. As someone once said, the unacceptable face of capitalism.
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Disgusting that people like him can get away with this kind of stuff. The law makers really need to address this kind of activity and protect the innocent from people like Garner. I'm not holding my breath though. >:(
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Some of you might care to enter your name into this petition on Change.org to charge Norton management with fraud charges after the recent revelations of what has been happening within the company and it's subsequent demise.
This is the link to the Change.org website and the petition page: Change.org_Norton_fraud_charges_petition (https://t.co/Vm3EbrZTpE?amp=1)
Bill
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Hello all,
Yes, sad indeed. But not entirely unexpected (from those few Norton aficionados who have been trying to tell the deaf ears about this for the last few years).
As a Norton owner too, I have kept an eye on the company, and while I loved the idea of a resurgence, with good looking models and an insane amount of brand loyalty globally, their racing has been questionable, and you dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to be have been skeptical of their R&D etc.
Another irony, in addition to all the previous Norton disasters, lovely but failed rotary's etc, is that it also reminds me very much of the DeLorean fiasco. Although admittedly its now understood that that concern was shut down by governments, there are a number of parallels...
I think we just have to wait and see how this pans out. Hasn't done a proud name any favours though...
Ok, am back under my rock for a few years now! Best wishes all,
Andy
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Aye Andy,
Pleased to see that the Smoke hasn't finished you off. ;) No need to hibernate for too long now as the crocuses are out up here now and the daffies are showing their buds.
Can you get the bike out of the garage without paying a congestion charge? :(
My Norton friend is definitely not impressed and was well aware of the shenanigans a good while ago and surprised that it kept going for so long.
Good health to you and yours, my regards, Bill
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All good. Was actually up in Aviemore last week playing in the sna'
Congestion charge? ULEZ? Doesnt apply to my current stable!! Or the silver car from 2022!
(Skorp hasnt turned a wheel in ages- I plan to build up spoked hubs, when putting new front end on. Its a 5 year plan...)
Got back into riding a year or 2 ago after a long lay off. Went to the Classic TT last year, rode that awful 750 racer there and back- a delight!!
Currently mid AMC gearbox rebuild for one of the others. Your norton pal (GR surely??) would approve.
Aye, slange to you too!
a
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Andy, good to see you back on the forum
Ian
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Aye Andy,
GR indeed! ;)
Pleased to read you have been playing in the sna', give us a chap if you need a break in the passing. ;)
Slainte, Bill
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https://www.rideapart.com/articles/402821/norton-motorcycles-steve-murray-possible-buyer/
Latest development maybe? If I were him I would think very careful after losing so much money.
Is the Norton name tainted beyond repair now?
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Well let’s just hope he can pull it off eh.... 🤞🤞