Thumper Club Forum
Technical => Bike Problems/Questions => Topic started by: chippy on March 17, 2009, 06:26:16 PM
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I am having problems with the starter on a 660,sometimes it spins the motor,sometimes just the starter spins and ocaisionally it makes a grinding sound.
I have pulled the side cover off to expose the sprag clutch and the crank pinion can be moved in and out,is this normal?
Is the nut on the end of the crank rh thread?
Can anyone point me in the direction of some reading on this side of the engine and troubleshooting.
Any help/advice would be much appreciated
Thanks Gary
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Aye chippy,
Go to this site and download the 2 pdf files which are toward the bottom left of the page, you'll find them. :)
http://motorbikemanuals.blogspot.com/2008/07/yamaha-szr660-service-manual.html
Also try searching Google with 'Yamaha SZR 660', also keep coming back here, all sorts! :-X
I hope you get it sorted
Regards, Bill.
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I couldnt get the thing to download,I am not too hot on computers ! if it does not work I am stumped!!
I have a service book tha I downloaded but it does not tell you any faults or play etc.
As I see it the pinion on the crank spins freely one way ,then bites when it is turned in the opposite direction,But the pinion can be moved in and out so that it does not always mesh,so I was looking for pointers as to the fault,there is only one chipped tooth on the pinion and everything looks in good order to me.
Thanks Gary
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Aye chippy,
Sorry about the duff URL. >:(
I've just tried this one, which works. Give it time, it's a big file ~15Mgb! ;)
http://www.carlsalter.com/aaman/Yamaha_SZR_660_'95_service_manual.pdf
Regards, Bill.
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Hasn't SteveH got and szr?? ....he knows EVERYTHING! :-)
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No I havent, and no I dont
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Thanks,I managed that one,now to see if I can understand
Gary
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Aye Garry,
Pleased you got that to download OK. I hope you have been able to trace the problem.
My regards, Bill.
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I got the nut off the end of the crank,then came the hard bit!
I made a puller out of 3/8 plate and some 8mm studding,then put a small jack between the end of the crank and the plate and jacked,this did not move the rotor.
Anyone got a wand for hire?
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Aye Garry,
Make sure your puller is all on square and then apply the pressure so that everything is under tension but not deforming! :o Now take a 2lb ball pein and sharply smack the end of the puller so as to 'shock' load the puller. The whole lot should fall off with a loud bang and clatter, so have a towel ready to cushion the fall.
SteveL, SteveH or Jethro may have their own ideas as well, mine is not without risk. ???
However, after putting a Duke single, crank under 28 tonnes of pressure to part it :o that really went off with a bang! ;D
Keep us posted and remember, somebody may have used Loctite or Locnut on the taper. ???
My regards, Bill.
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In the past Ive used an air impact hammer to drive the puller, took a while but it eventually came off without too much drama. 12v impact hammers can be bought from screwfix etc if you dont have a compressor
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Get it square, nip it up tight, give it a whack, nip it up tight, give it a whack etc
Oh and then discover another fixing you did not see and the whole lot is toast (dont ask me how I know)
However I do have a flywheel stuck on a crank (old JAP rotovator engine.. Cannot shift it despite all best efforts and those of the local garage and their hydrolic press. I think there has been some electrolytic corrosion between the flywheel (ally) and the crank (Steel). Motor never appears to have run, so I am guessing that the flywheel is 180° out
R
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I have bought a puller to try the tighten/whack procedure,first attempt was non effective!
Inside the rotor are three 8mm tapped holes to fasten the puller to,there are also three allenheads showing,the book makes no mention of removing these,do they hold the two steel discs onto the back of the rotor?
Do all these parts come away as one? It looks like it in the book.
When I get further on I am looking forward to the reassembly is a reversal of dismantling page.
Thanks for the tips I will post the progress.
Cheers Gary
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Aye Garry,
I haven't been into the guts of the MZ on the alternator side, but from looking at the manual and reading your queries, my inclination is:
I have bought a puller to try the tighten/whack procedure,first attempt was non effective!
Inside the rotor are three 8mm tapped holes to fasten the puller to,there are also three allenheads showing,the book makes no mention of removing these,do they hold the two steel discs onto the back of the rotor?
Do all these parts come away as one? It looks like it in the book.
When I get further on I am looking forward to the reassembly is a reversal of dismantling page.
Thanks for the tips I will post the progress.
Cheers Gary
It is the repeated nip/whack technique which eventually parts the tapers, the retaining nut's torque of 110ft/lbs exerts a very strong loading, you may also find that the woodruff key in the crankshaft wasn't properly aligned during assembly and this may also be increasing the 'grip' of the taper. You may also carefully apply heat from a hair dryer or a hot air paintstripping gun to the rotor alone, around the taper. This may allow suficient expansion to ease the grip of the taper. I wouldn't use a bare flame and keep the heat away from the crank. You don't want to loose the magnetism within the rotor, by using to much heat.
"Inside the rotor are three 8mm tapped holes to fasten the puller to,there are also three allenheads showing,the book makes no mention of removing these,do they hold the two steel discs onto the back of the rotor?"
On page 4-75, Section G3, Allen head set screw requires loctite when rebuilding, but cannot see any need to remove whilst the whole AC rotor assembly is on the end of the crankshaft. I would er not to. Yes, they appear to retain the disc within which the starter clutch is held.
"Do all these parts come away as one? It looks like it in the book." I would agree with your assumption, but it is an assumption :-\
"When I get further on I am looking forward to the reassembly is a reversal of dismantling page." Page 4-75, Section G3, would appear to answer your questions.
Hope this helps, Bill.
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Just gave in on the tighten/wack system!
The new puller bent,we used a battery impact driver(heavy duty) and it bent the puller(clarkes)
I even wore my specs,it has been attempted before i think ,there is a "divot" in the rotor cntre where it looks as if someone has had acetylene on it.
I am now in need of a plan J
If I can borrow the yamaha tool for the job would it be stronger than the clarke thing.
How easy to find are all these parts ,if they have to be chopped off?
Thanks Gary
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Aye Gary,
OH BOTHER! >:(
Any chance of a photo of this "divot" in the rotor centre? Do you think somebody superglued or centre punched the divot in the rotor and onto the taper to stop the rotor spinning on the taper? >:(
Not sure of the strength of a Yamaha 'original' tool, mine is on loan to Andy230 for use on the race bike and is a three legged puller (casting) for BMC flywheels using 8mm threaded rod and double nuts.
I wouldn't have thought finding the parts overly difficult, but potentially expensive. May I suggest a direct email to Andy230 via 'My messages' on this site from the 'Members List' or contact Slipstream Engineering for a blether?
I would still favour a large HD socket and long bar on the puller when tightening, rather than the impact drill, as you can apply plenty of torque in a controlled way, afore the batter. Seeing that push has come to shove, maybe a 4lb lump hammer or 6lb sledge on a long handle with care might deliver the blow.
I can only wish you well and hope you don't damage yourself, whilst trying to get it to shift.
My regards, Bill.
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Hi Gary
I used a puller designed to pull hubs off ?? ford I think. I went down to the local garage who lent me the tool. It did cost me a jar of honey.
Is the engine out. If so a friendly local garage may "pop" it off for you. Also if there is a problem with the previous owner glueing/locktiting /welding it on they would probably recognise it as they would have seen every bodge known to man.
From previous experiences it can take quite a lot of force (and ignorance) to move the rotor, both of which I have a particular gifted in.
Goodluck
beeman
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On my srx, which i think is the same as the szr's bottom end....I made up my own puller, and then applied a fair amount of heat round the rotor collar......you're not confusing this 'divit' with the wooruff key slot?
anyway, plenty of heat, then used the tighten and wollop cycle
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Worked for me on the racer bottom end (660- same as yours)
Let me know if you want that puller...
a
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The divot is on the rotor collar,it looks like a previous owner has had problems,it is a melted divot.
The puller would be good,thanks.Where are you? I am in Leeds.
Cheers Gary
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I have photos of the divot in the rotor,but do not know how to post them.
Could someone show the way please.
Cheers Gary