Thumper Club Forum
Technical => Bike Problems/Questions => Topic started by: Silverfox on January 24, 2021, 11:09:24 AM
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Hi all,
I am trying to fit a new tyre but the it just wont seat on the rim - plenty of lube and 85psi wont do it. I took it to my mechanic and he couldn't fit it either - i have noticed the tyre is tubeless and its going on a tubed rim (with tube), could this be the issue?
Cheers
Gareth
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Morning Gareth,
Had the same problem with Morini 125H wheels that are Grimeca cast and Hiedenau tyres (2.75 and 3.00) size. Ex race tyre fitter who does all my tyre fitting had 85 psi and lashings of lube and even then they were reluctant to seat. So, put tyres in a warm room to soften and cleaned the wheels and tubes of lube and started afresh after half a day. Still a fight and still required 85 psi to seat, but they did seat.
Conclusion: some tyres have stiffer tyre sidewalls than others, the tyre needs to be warm and as flexible as possible. Some wheel rims, especially the cast, narrower sizes have little space in the central well of the rim for both tyre walls and a partially inflated tube. Lots of use of a rubber mallet and bouncing the whole assembly on the floor, as the pressure is increased, appeared to be the solution. Old tyres that look OK, but are more than 5 years old need to be given the heave ho.
I know this isn't a panacea, but at least you know that you are not alone in experiencing this problem. OH! For God's sake don't use Fairy, I corroded a Borrani rim to powder, due to the high salts content! :(
Regards, Bill
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Thanks Bill as always most helpful.
Does the fact the tyre is tubeless have any bearing on this?
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Thanks Bill as always most helpful.
Does the fact the tyre is tubeless have any bearing on this?
I may be wrong Gareth, but I think tubeless tyres have stiffer sidewalls, so maybe that's a contributing factor....
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They're also designed to seal against the rim so have a smooth(er?) surface contacting it, maybe not allowing as much sliding movement?
I find different makes of tyres vary wildly in how hard they are to fit. Yesterdays I was fitting a Mitas H01 to the back wheel of the Francis-Barnett and only needed levers for the final few inches. I remember having real struggles with TT100s in the past. The easiest are trials tyres with very soft sidewalls.
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My 955 Tiger had tubeless tyres on spoked wheels with tubes in them.They went on ok with just a footpump to blow them up with.As Bill said,put them in a warm place for a few hours and use plenty of tyre soap.
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your right bill never use fairy or similar that stuff will eats wheels tubes spokes ,its tempting to use loads to pop out a tyre , but dont i ruined a dommie front wheel that way :-[ ,next thing im planning when im better is to convert my spoked wheels to tubeless should be fun tommy
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I converted the spoked wheels on my 955 Tiger with no problems. Details here: https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/what-i-did-on-my-holidays-spoke-sealing.46888/ although the photos seem to have disappeared (hardly surprising). I have them if you're interested.
Despite neing told I'd kill myself I seem to still be here.....
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Despite neing told I'd kill myself I seem to still be here.....
Ah but for all we know Ian you may just be a cloned android of the REAL Ian who dud if fact kill himself when he converted his spoked wheels to tubeless 🤣😉
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thanks ian some photos would be helpful i was talking to a lad on line who did his gb wheels years ago with no problems ,but he used a special tape ,i was going to do it with a strong mastic ,i,m collecting info on different ways off doing it for now ta tommy
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Despite neing told I'd kill myself I seem to still be here.....
Ah but for all we know Ian you may just be a cloned android of the REAL Ian who dud if fact kill himself when he converted his spoked wheels to tubeless 🤣😉
Sussed!
Tommy - I'll see what I can do. I have the pics somewhere.
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Tommy: some pics
The spokes and nipples before applying the sealer: cleaned up with a small wire brush in the dremel.
(http://www.iansoady.org.uk/tubeless/spokes%20and%20nipples.jpg)
First coat of sealer applied:
(http://www.iansoady.org.uk/tubeless/sealer%20applied.jpg)
Second coat of sealer:
(http://www.iansoady.org.uk/tubeless/sealer%202nd%20coat.jpg)
This is the sealer I used. Kindly donated by a local supplier as it was a few weeks out of date so couldn't be used on aircraft:
(http://www.iansoady.org.uk/tubeless/sealer.jpg)
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I continue to recommend KY jelly, a fantastic rubber lubricant that won't harm steel and NEVER rots rubber - for obvious reasons I suppose.
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fantastic ian ta was it much hassle to balance the wheels after the conversion ta tommy
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I continue to recommend KY jelly, a fantastic rubber lubricant that won't harm steel and NEVER rots rubber - for obvious reasons I suppose.
Well that's good to know. I can raid my wife's tube if I need any in the future!
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fantastic ian ta was it much hassle to balance the wheels after the conversion ta tommy
Didn't make much (if any) difference.
This is my balancing jig made of MDF:
(http://www.iansoady.org.uk/tubeless/balancing.jpg)
I've also reduced the sizes of the other images as they were far too big!
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magic ian thank you tommy
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in the winter i always warm the tyres and rim up against a radiator before fitting, the rubber is much more pliable if its warm. when im fitting a tyre in summer, i leave tyre and rim in the conservatory for an hour or two and it just slips on wrestling with iron hard cold rubber is a thankless task. they always pop on the bead if theyre warm.
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Have you kicked the covid, John?👍
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yeah we both got through it without any long term issues. it wasnt a pleasant illness though and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. terrlble virus. but we are much improved and back at work now. it really laid us low.
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Good to he you both recovered ok John 👍. I know a couple of folk who’ve had it with varying degrees of illness. Certainly doesn’t sound good though. Hopefully the vaccine will help to keep things at bay 🤞...cheers, Michael
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Weird isn't it? I know loads of people who've had it and only one of them has really had any symptoms, but he's now into his 4th week in intensive care. :o
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good to hear you both doing well john
my cousin and her husband look after her 94 year old mother ,she lives with them ,they both got covid and my 94 year old aunt didnt even get a cold, no telling who it affects eh,stay safe lads tommy
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Tommy: some pics
The spokes and nipples before applying the sealer: cleaned up with a small wire brush in the dremel.
First coat of sealer applied:
(http://www.iansoady.org.uk/tubeless/sealer%20applied.jpg)
Second coat of sealer:
This is the sealer I used. Kindly donated by a local supplier as it was a few weeks out of date so couldn't be used on aircraft:
Thanks Ian,
very interesting. I was interested in the rims especially as they seem to have safety ledges on them which my old classic alloy rims don't have. I have been trying to find rims like that to convert my Bonny and Trident (Meriden ones) to tubeless as I don't fancy the idea of running tubeless without safety ledges on the rims. Are they the original rims?
Thanks
Richard.
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Yes they are Richard.
I know people go on about safety ledges but in reality a tubeless tyre is no more likely to come off the rim when deflated than is a tubed one (and perhaps even less so as the sidewalls tend to be stiffer). And a tubeless tyre is much much less likely to suffer a catastrophic deflation in the first place than a tubed one especially as there's no risk of ripping the valve out. I think the ledges are more relevant for cars as a bike will become unstable long before the tyre starts to make a bid for freedom.
Having said that I have no intention of converting the steel rims on my ES2! And of course anybody who does the conversion does so entirely at their own risk. I did the Tiger in 2006 and it was still fine when I sold it 8 years or so later. It's still showing as taxed so presumably hasn't been wrecked.....
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I’m really enjoying reading this thread chaps, found it very interesting and informative. I did consider going down this route with my tracker build but just never bothered getting round to it as I was still recovering from my accident when I got round to sorting out the wheels/ tyres etc. Something I might possibly look into doing at some point in the future. Cheers for all the info chaps.
Michael
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Johnr sorry to hear you had the dreaded virus but glad you are "back up and running" so to speak. No one is safe but every one is different. My daughter is a District nurse and has only just had her jab, yet she is in contact with Covid patients on a daily basis. Beggars belief doesn't it 🙄 ?
Gareth, sorry to have hijacked your thread.
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thanks ian, it was a pretty unpleasant virus but we are through it now. thankfully.