Thumper Club Forum
Technical => Bike Problems/Questions => Topic started by: gordy2169 on March 16, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
-
hi all
i have a 1956 royal enfield G-series its been stored for about 6 years and i have no spark I've checked the points and there's no spark there! i don't have much exp with bikes this old any help/ idea's or advise will be great
thanks
gordy
-
magneto ignition? if it is, the contact brushes on the magneto might be either worn or perhaps the slip ring is corroded. clean up with a piece of softwood held against them whiolst you kick the motor over.
-
yes sry it's a magneto ive cleaned the points but i'll try the wood trick thx
-
on the side is a fitting that the ht lead fixes to, inside the unit behind this is the metal slip ring that spins and is energised by the magneto, the ring is copper and so can get clogged with crud, the back of the ht lead fitting should also have a carbon brush on it that touches the ring and transmits the spark, on the other end of the mag, will be another ring, but this will be behind a grub screw or something similar, inside here will be another slip ring and another carbon brush. try the softwood (a lolly stick soaked in alchohol will do it) mags are pretty basic, if it was runninmg when it went away, it should run now.
-
thx john this is exactly the reply i was hoping for (plain english) ;)
im going to get on it now let you know how it go's
thx again
-
how does the engine stop in normal operation? some mags had an engine stop which essentially was just an earth to the ht lead, some even had a little metal tab that was bolted to the head next to the spark plug and you pushed against the top of the plug to earth it and kill the motor. might be worth just looking and seeing how it was originally intended to be stopped(my old bsa was stopped by the decompressor) and then seeing if that was causing the problem. a sort of archaic 'have you left the killswitch off' !!
-
lol yep that was my first thought before i posted (the times ive knocked the kill-switch and thought now whats wrong? on modern bikes) but i cant seem to see any thing on this! the only thing coming off the mag is the ht lead?. ive been working on my bandit as im selling it (to pay for this one) but im going to give it another look tonight
-
where in the uk are you?
-
im in sudbury suffolk ! there's no "kill switch as such as i said before i can see no other wires from the mag other than the ht although there is a wire i cant trace with a spade on it that comes from the (for want of a better word) the loom and could go to the mag (it would reach ?!?! ...see thing is this bike used to be my dads about 20 years ago i saw it on ebay and had to get it.. so although ive been a biker since me old man built one for me out of a lawnmower and scaffolding polls ages 6 years and only ever had bikes till now (32) im out of my comfort zone and this one may be a bit different as my dad was a bit of a bodgit and scarper type!!
-
Not sure which Mag the G series uses, but this is the maintainance sheets for the Constellation & Super Meteor which might help with general problems.
http://www.berkeleyclub.co.uk/Manual/RoyalEnfieldMaintManual.pdf (http://www.berkeleyclub.co.uk/Manual/RoyalEnfieldMaintManual.pdf)
-
im assuming its got a dynamo on top of the mag?
-
yes it has a dynamo on top. i still cant suss what this spare wire is im thinking this may be the key to the prob although it looked like it sould go on the batt, its brown and green (not that means anything lol) and come's from the loom will reach the mag but i cant see any where it would go it has a 2 prong spade??? im foxed???
p.s. thx for the link steve
-
dynamo on my beesa has 2 wires going in to it and another which seems to be an earth, which fstens to the screw on the metal endcap of the dynamo. some pics would be handy. also get a multimeter and trace wheher the wire goes to earth, should be easy using the continuity tester on any multimeter
-
im going to try and sort some pic this week but this pc dont like my phone and thats the only camra i have on the phone think im going to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and strip it down this week !!
-
dont strip the mag, theyre a bit specialised, and can be easily broken if you dont know what youre doing with them. just out of interest, is the mag spinning when you kick the engine over? ive had one come loose on its taper and when i kicked the bike over the gear spub but the mag didnt!!
-
i've took the dynamo off but i will hold fire there then. yes the mag turns you can see the points end spin when turned over. i'm going to try to up load some pics now, there not to much but best i could do with what i have to hand!
-
it wont let me up load any pics says the file is to big >:(
-
wooohoooo it lives, well i hav a spark anyway all be a very week one. i took the side case off removed some cogs and put a hand drill too it but still no spark when kicked over???
-
nearly there c! checked and cleaned the points spun on the drill a bit more now i have a strong spark on kicking it over! one thing tho i lost my marks on the cog, the points need to be closed at top dead center right?
-
there will be a threaded bolt hole in the head over the piston (as its a sidevalve you cant use the spark plug hole) unfasten the bolt and find a measure to push through this hole, so that it touches the top of the piston as it rises and falls. i use a cable tie. from this you can figure out where tdc is when you are turning the bike over. you need to find tdc on the compression stroke, (as in, with both valves shut) when you find tdc, mark where the cable tie is level with the head, then turn the engine backwards till the marker (cable tie remember) drops about 3 or 4mm back down the bore, (this is a pretty rough 'get it running guestimate based on my own beesa sidevalve). ok the engine is at this position, so the plug will fire before top dead centre(btdc) so you now need to adjust the mag(and i dont know how yours is adjusted) so that the points are just opening at this point. not fully opening, but just opening. now what i was taught was to use a cigarette paper!! simply open the points and slip a fag paper between them, the points will grip the paper tightly. as you turn the engine over, you will find that at the position where the points are just opening, the fag paper will be loose enough to be able to move it. they need to be opening before tdc to allow the bike to fire whilst the fuel is still compressing. as i say, this is seat of the pants stuff, but it should get you somewhere close. if the points are still shut at tdc chances are it wont run. im sure that somewhere online will be more detailed instructions as to the exact measurement btdc that you need. but this is how ive done it in the past.
you might also try asking on the classic bike forum, its not affiliated to the magazine, but several of the magazines contributors post on it since the official classic bike mag forum shut down.
http://www.classicbikeforum.co.uk/index.php
-
i see! very helpful thanks and i do mean thank you for taking the time to help me with this i now know why im so knackard after 3 hours of trying,ive been using a chop stick snapped in half in the plug hole to get tdc (gess theres a bit of my old mans bodgit and scarper in me after all lol) this is very helpful ive tryed finding info online but cant find anything i can use i have a book on ebay that may help if i win it but for now im in the dark ! ill get right back on it tomorrow> taking my bandit for mot in the morn as thats whats paying for the ol gal, and if i dont sell one of them i may need a divorce lawyer!!!!
-
on a personnel note its ironic that this was may dads bike over 20 years ago and if he was still here he'd have had it running the same day i got it (even if it came down to freezin our nuts of in a cold garage till the early hours) but i guess thats why i had to dive head first into it with no idea of what i was getting into lol. where in the uk are you? i think me and the relic might have to pay you a visit once the old gals running again ? (just a far flung idea!)
-
im in the north west, between blackpool and preston, youre welcome to come and visit if you like, theres plenty of lanes hereabout where we could take our old sidevalves out for a pooter around.
as for being able to fix stuff yourself, i guess we as a nation have just got out of the habit of fixing stuff for ourselves. back in the day, you fixed your car because you didnt want to pay the garage and you learned how stuff worked from then. i spent an hour or so the other day adjusting chains and brakes on my kids bikes and fixing a puncture on my daughters. their ages? 20 and 21, and neither of them had a clue how to do anything. i partly blame myself, tey should have been doing this stuff since childhood. my dad was pretty inept at anything practical, so i learned everything i know by doing it myself, i suppose im as guilty as everyone else these days of mollycoddling their kids.
-
come on gordy, im waiting to hear how you went on! any news yet???
-
hi john sorry mate they stopped me posting or doing anything for that matter! duno why ? thanks again for your help got a good spark as said before and then found the fuel line and tap where gunked up so striped the carb and float chamber got them sparkling and try me best to get the sludge out the tank.
just got to throw it all back together now, the bandit failed the m.o.t so had me hands full with that! hope i can get back to the ol gal next weekend let you know if i dont get band again lol
-
you know the old trick about putting a load of nuts and bolts through the liks of a small chain(like a sink plug chain) and dropping it in ther tank with some hot soapy water, then wrap it all well in cardboard, old blankets, bubble wrap, whatever you have to hand, and jam the whole lot in the drum of a cement mixer for a few hours, taking it out occasionally to turn it round. alternatively, for rust removal, try googling electrolytic rust remover, you will need some washing soda, some iron bars a battery charger and a few days to wait!!!!
-
yeah lucky enough i know someone thats doing up an old honda and is hiring a mixer so im guna talk to him nicely ;)
-
some folk use gravel and some use loose nuts and bolts, but i prefer to put bolts with nuts on through the links of a chain and drop it in the tank. it does the same job, but when its complete, you only need to hook out one part of the chain and everything else is still attatched to it, rather than spending an hour or two trying to dredge the last nut out.
-
hi gordy, i keep coming back to check your progress on this. any joy in getting it running yet?
-
Once you've got loose rust out of the tank, remove the tap, slosh the inside with phosphoric acid (KillRust, etc), leave it for 15 minutes or so, then wash it out with clean water. Put a vacuum cleaner nozzle in the filler, put the machine on 'blow' and dry it out thoroughly. When it's dry and warm, slosh the inside with penetrating epoxy (West or similar) and discard excess. The acid dissolves alloy and brass, so anything like that has to come out first.
-
hi all
sry its been so long john i think i got banned from this site or something ?? still i can post again now so heres the up date she's now running and very well too got a filter in the fuel as will have to slush the tank as the guy was saying but it expensive and i dont have the cash need to get it tho as my gs has a split in the seam (2 birds with 1 can) finding it very hard to get used to the gears upside down and back to front lol im going to change the pipes as it pisses fuel out every where at the mo! and im trying to find the correct oil ? ive got some lead additive on order will pick up tomorrow and then its the m.o.t
we did it ol bean woo...
thx again for all ya help advice ect... and sry for long wait for reply
-
oh and i got a seal kit coming from amal for the carb !
would you know what oil to use and im thinking of getting new spark plug its a "lodge h14" but i cant find a match for it? its a tri-ark (3 contacts) thought that was a modern thing !
i since found a shop that still do the lodge h14 but thay out of stock :-(
-
get some straight 50 monograde in it. its a pretty low tech thing so i wouldnt get too carried away with expensive oil. tbh i run my bsa on morrisons cheap 20-50, its about 5 quid a gallon but as it leaks a bit and burns a bit i cant see the expense of buying something like miller monograde 50. glad youve got it running. as for the fuel filter. the crap you will be cleaning from the carb will be almost entirely powdered rust. so stick one of them neobdynium(sp!) magnets to your fuel filter and it will stop the debris from reaching your carb.
-
they do classic motor oil in a motor spares shop on my road think it was mono 30 and mono 50 and its not too bad price wise (£19.99 for 5ltr i think)
i also worked out why i could post pics before it was cos my camera is too high res so i will borrow a lesser 1 so i can show ya the fruit of our labors lol
-
morrisons oil is 4.99 a gallon!!!!! ;D
-
lol thought you must have meant per ltr wow that is cheap
-
just took her out for a spin as i got mot in the morn she runs well at stand still but loses power when your riding tryed moving the retard that just kills it i gess the timing is still out??? although she will start great????
-
passed mot, still have power issues! what would you say top end should be ?
-
choke was stuck lol runs like a dream now
-
great news mate, glad you got it sorted, now lets have some pictures!!! ;D
-
sry for the long gap bettween posts ive had a lot on me plate of late.
hope you had a good xmas!
still cant put pics on as i only have a 12mpx cam so pic file size is to big ill see what i can do.
what oil would you use for the gearbox and the chain case? or can you use the same as the engine oil?
-
gearbox needs a heavy oil like straight 90, or liquid grease, you can get it on ebay, classic bike shops do it, the very thick oil is less prone to leaking out of the joins in the casings, also vent the engine breather into the chaincase, just to help it out. dont use engine oil, it will piss out everywhere and you'll forever be apologising for your old incontinent bike! as for pics, if you upload them to photobucket or a similar online photo site (theyre free too) when you put them on, you can resize them down small enough to use as an avatar if you want, or just small enough to use on this site if you want.
and happy xmas to you too
-
nice one thx again oh wise guru lol !!
the chain case just needs a small puddle or bath at the bottom right?
-
just a small puddle, what i did was to heat some grease up in an old pan till it melts (obviously do it outside, it stinks!) when its runny like oil pour it in the chaincase, enough to cover the chain so more than it needs really. then run the engine for a while or take it out for a spin. the grease will get flung over everything in the casing. then park it up and leave it to cool down. as the glease cools and sets, you have a layer of grease all round the outside where the case gasket is, which is so thick it will stop the oil you put in leaking out. when you have let it cool, put in a bit of oil just enough to cover the chain. not orthadoq, and it wont be a permanent cure to leaky chaincases. but it will slow them to nearly nothing.
-
was out on a spin with me brother when the chain case bolts came out had to do a road side bodge with what we could scrape together beg borrow and steal lol just reminded me of days out with the old man.
also the regulator is blown, they are about 30 35 quid for a replica but as its hidden in the side panel i was thinking any old 6v regulator would do right? or could i get it fixed?
going to work on uploading the pix in the next week
happy new year mate
-
found some old pics my bro sent me when i first got the bike ill try them!! thats me spinning the wheel when i was about 8 ish
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
my old man riding it
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
these are over 20 years old ill try to resize the new ones
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
need a rocker cover gasket seen loads for the bullet but cant find 1 for the model g might make one from cork!
-
cork gasket or even cornflakes box gasket works ok. what kind of reg have you got? would a zennor diode work or have you a mechanical regulator, cos you can get solid state regulators that you can put inside the metal casing of your old one. if its a mechanical reg, you can adjust them.
-
i know i have thanked you a lot over the time this thread has been running but i would just like to say again how much i really do welcome your thorts ideas and help! with out getting to sentimental, i have never had this sort of input or interest in my maniacal probs since my ol man died !! i said when i first got the bike if i cant get it running ill just hang it on a wall in my garage (as a sort of memento or relic of my dads life) but thanks to you john and my brother who has also put a lot of time and effort into it ! its now road legal and running which is more than i thort i would do in years lol
anyway with all that lovey dovey shite said, i think its a manual reg but not sure its a bigish black oblong box with a domed top that unclips and has 2 large thick copper wire coils on a old school chipboard i will try to upload a pic (now i got the hang of it lol)
-
this is it!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
yes, its mechanical, there are two coils with contactors on the top, the faster the generator spins, the more voltage you get eventually the voltage gets high enough to trip the contactor out and stops the bike charging.
try looking here, http://www.dansmc.com/electricaltesting.htm for an overview of what does what,
here, http://www.traction-owners.co.uk/tech/Propsting/Voltage%20Regulator.pdf for lucas type twin coil regs,
-
soon it will be the only bike i have on the road !! ive sold my bandit and will be selling my r6 in the spring i have gs that was sat in a mates garden for 11 years so when ive got the time and funds that will be my main transport but til then ill be on the ol brit
-
youve a gs? which one? cos i REALLY know my way round big suzuki lumps!
-
and try maplin for the voltage regulator. i got one from maplin the other year (although it was 12v) and it was about a tenner!! ive an electronic one on my 53 bsa, works great, and never have to touch it.
incidentally, if you have a dynamo, you can make it run at 12v and fit a 12v reg, allowing you to then have something like decent lighting, although paul goff sells 6v halogen headlight bulbs which do cut through the gloom a bit better than stock.
-
yeah i got a (1978) gs 750 !
-
i was thinking about converting it to 12v but didnt have a clue where to start ! if its as easy as buying a 12v reg and batt then i may as well do that now if i got to replace it any way!!!
-
Hi Bro, Finally got logged in, juz been reading thro' ur topic of events with John.. I would like to take this opertunity John to thank you for taking the time and giving us your factual help .. As I feel without your help we would still be trying to get the ol'girl running..
Its certainly been a head scratching journey and an education in simple, but confusing electronics, really once looked into its very clever simple electronics.. We even had a BMW motor electronics engineer friend of ours take a look at the Enfield. He has been in the trade for 30 years and has had like myself since the 1980's something like 50 or more different types of motorvehicle from all over world.. Originally I think that he thought that it would be a sinch to get the enfield running, but he left us scratching his head & confused over the operation of the mag/dyno's operatio or lack of it.. LOL, its been along time since we worked as lads on his dad's 1940's Massy in the shed at his home..
Gordy keep us posted on which route ur gunna take on which type of regulator ur gunna fit, will try & post some of the pic's I have of the Enfield when I get the chance, c u later, Nick..
-
it is pretty much that simple, as the bike has magneto ignition, then the dynamo and charging system really do nothing but power the lights and horn, so a convertion to 12v is really quite a good thing, also whilst at it you can convert to negative earth too to simplify it, this you will need to decide before buying a reg as they come in either 12v+ earth or 12v- earth, its a simple conversion and you can get the parts from srm, dave lindsley or any of a number of other classic bike suppliers. or, you could stick with 6v and just get a new voltage reg, and fit a better headlight bulb! my 53 beesa has still got 6v neg earth, but has a electronic reg, a halogen bulb, a led tail light a 6v gel battery and an electronic ignition conversion (expensive option!!) and works just fine on 6v, so the choice is yours, both work fine, it just depends what your budget is. if you need a new reg anyway, then going 12v means you need a set of 12v bulbs and a battery too, staying 6v means you just need a reg.
as for the little knowlege ive shared, well it was passed on freely to me by other folk who just wanted to help keep these old bikes on the road, and in the future, no doubt it will be passed on to others by yourselves, what goes around comes around as they say.
anyhow, before you spend money, you need to check that the bike is charging, you might have something as simple as a broken wire on your dynamo, or a set of dirty dynamo brushes!. so, have a read of these on the subject of dynamos and regs,
http://www.nanocontrols.co.uk/auto/v-reg2.htm
http://www.srmclassicbikes.com/catalogue/index.php?target=categories&category_id=110
http://www.davelindsley.co.uk/parts.html
also as a footnote, remember you have a limited amount of power even with a well set up dynamo, so try and save where you can , if youve 100w output, then a 60/55 headlight is going to use over half of that and that assmues that all your connections are perfect and have no resistance, hence i fitted a led tail and stop light which uses only about 1 watt, so dont start fitting heated grips and sppot lights !!!!!
-
yeah i got a (1978) gs 750 !
gs750! nice! wire wheel model?
-
[/quote]gs750! nice! wire wheel model?
[/quote]
its the 5 spoke solid rims! got a kick start but now i got the starter lectrics sorted im after a cheap starter motor for it also need a top end braided front brake hose but i might just get that new as it is the brakes!!!
i also may have made some work for my self as i had a silicone packet suck into the carb and all the way out the pipe (whoops) dont know what damage that has done as i had to get my bandit back on the road to use after 3 years cos i droped my r6 of the stand after a rear blow out ! then i had to sell the bandit to get the rear tyre and leaver and pegs for the r6 then im going to have to sell the r6 to finish the oilfield and the gs (well thats the plan !!) as you can see ive had and still got a lot on my plate right now lol
-
firstly www.oldskoolsuzuki.info is just about the most informative place on earth for suzuki nuts. as for the starter, send me a picture. most gs stuff is generic, and ive a couple of gs550 and gs 650 starter motors in the shed also some gsx1100 ones.
-
also, ive a couple of gs550/750(same part) seats in the shed too, one of them is a new pattern seat, never been fitted iirc!
-
thats great! yes i think the 550 and 750 are the same part(starter) and i might be interested in the seat what would you be looking at for them??
-
ps no pic as i dont have one theres just a big empty space under the cover !
-
measure the diamiter of the hole the starter goes into, and the distance between the 2 m6 bolts that hold it in and let me know.
-
its about 6" from the back to where it fits to the cog/spindle about 3.5" wide and the bolts are about 1.5" apart
-
also my brother has the 550 and has had a misshap with his keys so at a long shot if you have a ignition switch tank and seat lock??? lol
-
sorry, ive only got the seats and a couple of engines in bits, no ignitions etc. i will look out the starters in the shed this weekend
-
ok np new it was a long shot ;)
what are you thinking money wise for the starter and seat mate?
-
you pay the post and buy me a drink if our paths cross.
-
nice one mate its a deal
-
you really are a cool guy john !!! ;)
-
bbbrrrrrrrrrr its a tad chilly out there just been working on the r6 to get it road worthy again (the bandit go's next week)
so how do we exchange info with out the world and his dog seeing it?
-
Aye Gordy,
Use that PM (personal message) thing beneath your 'avatar' on the lefthand side of this box.
Hope the Enfield continues to perform. :)
My regards, Bill.
-
ok thx bill
-
just sent my first pm on this site dose this mean im not a virgin any more lol ::)
-
ok, replied to, with pics, let me know if you got it, cos my pm outbox seems to not show any sent pms!!
-
yep got it pics and all!!!
starter looks perfect and yep its the side hinge model i need the hinges as the ones i took off are reverting back to there mineral form ;)
i dont mind which seat as you said any is better than nowt i did buy a pan with a ripped cover and rotten sponge from the states but it came with no hinges or catch so this will be a real nice pressie thx
i know ive said it over and over and you prob getting a bit sic of me saying it but i really really do appreciate every thing you have done and continue to do to help me !!!!!!!
thx bud
-
that thanks also goes out to all that have helped me over the last 8 or 9 months since i first posted i never used one of these sites before and prob never will use any other as i have been made to feel at home here in a very fast time and found a wealth of knowledge, so at the risk of sounding like a teenage chav big shout out the the thumper club cru !!!!
-
john if you go in to pm then click on "preferences" and change settings then change display type to chat format you can see your sent messages
-
hi all just a lil up date good old enfield got me to work the last few days after all me other bikes could get of the drive (might nick name it the snowplow) i will be attempting a full strip down and rebuild of the original engine so will prob need help and advice again real soon also might be looking for a head/topend but im just thinking about it at the mo and not sure on the details yet
-
whats up with the top end you have? these brit singles are a doddle to work on and theres plenty of bits about for them, im going to try and rebuild the motor on the m21 this year but ive been sayoing that for 3 years now and still not got round to it!
-
i have 2 bottom ends and 2 gearboxes but only one head between them i would like to rebuild the spare i have as it is the original and the one thats in it as a bench tested/ running spare
-
hey bro this is trhe pic i was trying to send ya
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
nice
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
anyone have a lucus type (4 prong) 6v regulator? or if someone has a 12v i could convert it over?
-
this is what im after (i cant afford £30 for a new one right now!)
thx
gordy
[attachment deleted by admin]